Transcript:

Seth Adler:
Jason Ortiz returns, welcome to Cannabis Economy, I'm your host Seth Adler. Download episodes on canneconomy.com, or if you currently get your podcasts. First a word from our supporter and then Jason Ortiz. I've known the family behind Medicine Man For the past eight years. Pioneers in Colorado, the family business helped set the path for global adult use cannabis. MG magazine has voted them top 50 cannabis companies to work for, two consecutive years running. Check out their website at medicinemandenver.com, or visit one of their locations in Denver, Aurora, Thornton or Longmont the next time you're in Colorado, to understand how one family has helped chart the course for the next great American industry.

All right, so we've got Jason Ortiz from the Minority Cannabis Business Association. Jason, thank you so much for your time.

Jason Ortiz:
Absolutely, glad to be back.

Seth Adler:
Yeah, it's been a while since we recorded one of these things.

Jason Ortiz:
It has, it has.

Seth Adler:
The past few weeks-

Jason Ortiz:
A lot has happened.

Seth Adler:
Yeah, exactly. The past few weeks, probably contact a lot, so that's given us the opportunity to record. And then, just generally speaking, a lot has [inaudible 00:01:21]. So let's kind of work our way backwards. You and I both had involvement in the SSDP, the 2020 event, which was great and it's fantastic, and that whole community of very young people, and I mean just related to my personal age, are amazing and in many ways. So let's start with what you kind of took away from it, and then maybe we can kind of dive in and chat about those things.

Jason Ortiz:
Sure, yeah. And I've been an SSDP alumni for a long time and I was there through the university of Canada, and I served on the board twice actually. And so, it's just, one, it's incredible to see it, it's even bigger than it was before. So now it's like 14 different countries, and that is just like a Herculean task to get any entity to that level. And so, for me to see all the international work, is just mind boggling. We thought we were cool back in 2012, really, but the work that's being done today is just incredible.

And so, I thought it was really interesting how it's less of a focus on criminal justice, and more a focus on capitalism and economics, and sort of the fuller ecosystem than when I was in SSDP. And when I was there, it was very specifically on criminal justice and student rights. Right? And so that part seems to you know, has advanced around the world, but I did think it was very different. It was less, and I guess it's not that surprising, but less focused about campus change, and very small good Samaritan policies, and how are we going to redesign all of society in a way that's going to solve the problems permanently?

And so I think for me that was the biggest takeaway I saw that, you would not get any pushback if you were very far left, or anti-capitalist, or whatever, you probably would have fit much more so now, than when I did, and I'm pretty left. But now I got pushed on the middle, compared to the folks the way they talked about it now. So it's been fascinating to see it grow in size, but also ideologically the issues have shifted.

There's also a much stronger focus on psychedelic research and a very medical, how are we going to make sure that this is both not co-opted by profit, but can move into the next phase of what's going on? And things like decrim of medicinal mushrooms have kind of sparked that conversation now. And actually someone in New York just introduced a statewide bill to decrim mushrooms as well. So, for me as a cannabis guy, it's been very interesting to see just within 10 years, it is a different universe in both the problems, how we talk about it, and what the goals are.

Seth Adler:
Yeah. And I want to unpack each of those things that you mentioned. But what would my key takeaway was, it was basically that community, those young people, have seen what cannabis has done, has seen what ... How cannabis has been legalized and who the benefactors of that [inaudible 00:04:20] are, and are not impressed with things like, the great legislation that we finally got from Illinois, people [inaudible 00:04:29] are like, "Look at how great it is compared to what we had," and they just see that as, it's just not good enough.

Jason Ortiz:
Right, right.

Seth Adler:
And I don't think you and I think it's good enough, but it was better, much better when ... You're not even close. Talk about psychedelics, and there is that huge now push. They say, essentially what I kept hearing was, "How can we learn, in terms of psychedelics, from what we did wrong on cannabis?" They already put it in past tense.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, yeah. I know it is, it's why we had our first legal state like six years ago, and so now they're looking at it like ancient times. And so ... But I think that the speed of change is increasing. And so, they're right to demand more and to demand better, and now they get to be part of that process where they can look forward and backwards, on what we did, and improve on it. So, yeah I think they're in the right space for sure.

Seth Adler:
That second part, I'll kind of recast it as, it feels like a focus on healthcare. So, criminal justice is healthcare, it's all healthcare to them. So decarceration is healthcare, all of it is, how can we redesign, whatever we're talking about, it's not a criminal justice issue, it's a healthcare issue, but it's all reframed as, how can we take of each other better?

Jason Ortiz:
Sure. And I think the concern around mental health is dramatically different, right? When we were thinking health and cannabis, it was folks that had cancer and had different issues. But the focus on mental health I think, is also one that is refreshing to see.

Seth Adler:
Totally. Yeah, no, and it's informed. And what else is informed is that big the last piece. Which is, kind of the redesigning of everything. The redesigning of reality. And we do have that opportunity with, or they feel the opportunity, with the global pandemic. I just want to kind of pause here for a minute. Because if I was there, so I'm basically twice the age of the median, or the mean. And some mathematician can tell me which one.

But, I've got the pandemic on my plate here, right? Now, I am seeing it, I'm speaking mostly from an American perspective, I personally am, and I think that there's a very large American contingent, and there is that Europe contingent, and there isn't so much an Asia contingent, but they're working on that. But you see countries like New Zealand and Australia coming out of this looking okay. Maybe does Germany have it figured out, we don't know. Sweden is doing it a completely different way, that's a whole nother conversation.

What we can definitely see is that, if you take it per million, the United States is not leading. I'm not speaking of-

Jason Ortiz:
Well leading in like moral leading, or leading in like we have the worst cases?

Seth Adler:
No, no, no, I'm literally, I'm just talking about cases, deaths, tests, things like [inaudible 00:07:43], we are 41st in terms of test per million in the world. So per million, right? so that's a real ... That's a straight mark, the 41st is not first. And so if I'm an American and I'm in my early twenties and I'm looking at that, there's a piece of, okay, wait a second, so what? And then that kind of, let's just look at our leadership. Meaning, if you love this president, you didn't like the last president. If you loved the last president, you don't like this president, so we have a leadership issue is all I'm going to say, right?

I'm trying to kind of-

Jason Ortiz:
That's definitely a simple way to put it.

Seth Adler:
Right? Yeah. I'm trying to have a big conversation-

Jason Ortiz:
Sure.

Seth Adler:
And then you start to look at the great recession, you then look at 9/11 and you look at our institutions coming back to this leadership issue of, if I'm in my early twenties, what works? We always kind of have fun with the fact that I'm also much older than you. But the '90s did work, right? That was the last time. And I remember the ... I was in the workforce in the late '90s. So everything was okay. And so, all this stuff is new. For them, this stuff is reality.

And so, how can we expect them to want to go back to the old way, if the old way never worked for them?

Jason Ortiz:
Well, I mean, I would say with the '90s though, mass incarceration ramped up pretty incredibly during the '90s. But that being said, it is-

Seth Adler:
... '80s and '90s people were working on messing stuff up without question but-

Jason Ortiz:
And all the .com and everything.

Seth Adler:
... But at least there was a working Congress. I'm not saying it was a working in 100% of the people's benefits, but it wasn't-

Jason Ortiz:
Sure. And back then shutting down the government was a big deal, now it's every three months we have to have this conversation.

Seth Adler:
And that's the only thing I'm trying to kind of get at. Yes, of course mass incarceration went through the roof because of what we decided in the '80s.

Jason Ortiz:
And like, I'm a Zenial, so I'm in the middle of the gen X and the millennial. And so I, was arrested when I was in high school, right? But when I was in high school, that was also 9/11. And so for me it was like, criminal justice system, whack, foreign policy, what? And then when I finally got to go to college, the housing crisis happened and the great recession of 2008, 2009. Between 16 and 30, there was three or four major cataclysmic events.

It's like this is clearly, I don't know how we can keep doing this over and over again. And so, that's also, I'm really frustrated with the way this particular election went, like we've learned nothing from the last few years. And so, yeah I'm getting worried. And I think where I'm trying to weather the storm, the next generation is like, "No, we're going out with a lightning rod, we're going to figure this shit out, because we can't keep doing this every year."

And I think some of the older folks are like, "Well you know, just batten down the hatches, and it'll get better eventually." But for a lot of young folks, that eventually hasn't ever been part of their life.

Seth Adler:
There we go, that's exactly ... Batten down what hatches? there are-

Jason Ortiz:
I can't afford to hatch.

Seth Adler:
Yeah. I think Eminem came out with a lyric of, pull yourself up from your bootstraps, I don't even know what it means.

Jason Ortiz:
Right, exactly. Which that phrase too, that phrase is actually used to describe it originally something that was impossible, and now we use it like, it's what we should be doing. But yeah, you know things change, there is definitely also a different level of information hitting folks. And so, I wasn't as constantly bombarded with how terrible everything was when I was younger either.

So even if it was, like it was mass incarceration, I had no idea in high school. Now these folks are coming in like, "The world's on fire, the economy is going to collapse, we just printed $17 trillion out of nowhere, but you got to pay your student loans." And so it's just such a mess, man.

Seth Adler:
Yeah there's no ... We have passed a law, so that you absolutely have to pay your student loans, even though we just made up fake money.

Jason Ortiz:
Right, right, exactly, yep.

Seth Adler:
And gave to airlines by the way.

Jason Ortiz:
Right, exactly. And the banks that own your loans, right? And so it's just, well the states are also telling you, you can't work, so if you want to do it, you can. But if you get unemployment right, and that's its own issue, but if you want to do something on the side, you can't do that. So this is just like, this bizarre incentive system that we have, it just doesn't make any sense. And so, of course folks are ready to kind of just blow it all up and start over.

And I think that's always been a sentiment that's been part of radical politics for a long time, but I think the-

Seth Adler:
And young people [inaudible 00:12:35].

Jason Ortiz:
... The casual nature of how we discuss them now is different. Like having said that before, people would have been like, "Whoa, calm down man." Where now, folks are like, "Well yeah obviously, but what are we going to do about it?" And so it's like, oh, okay, wow, right on.

Seth Adler:
It's a small point, but one that kind of is particularly interesting to me. When I bring up old music, old movies-

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah.

Seth Adler:
... Both of which have been created before I was born. Someone in their early twenties they'll say, "Well that was made before I was born. No, I'd never heard of it." But it was made before I was born too. I have heard of it, and it's almost like there's not any interest in whatever has happened because what does it added up to?

Jason Ortiz:
Right. For real, yeah. And there's just other more pressing things, right? So there's not quite the same time to indulge. like maybe we would have spent hours just listening to music because it's like your world is on fire. And so it's-

Seth Adler:
When you-

Jason Ortiz:
... Which I think also leads to the mental health here because we're creating this perpetual anxiety of problems you can't solve, right? And so this is something I've always, as an activist, when you give a community a problem but don't give a way to solve it, it just makes them accept the problem as truce. And so that's what we're doing, is just pumping all this stuff that is so big, students can't really address it, and so you just blank out all of it and say, "We got to do something different."

Which I don't disagree, it's clear what we've been doing did not prepare us for the moment, nor for me the bigger issue is that, we're just now learning from our mistakes. And so, that's the part where I get extra worried longer term, and I think the young folks see it too. And I think, there's this generation divide, sort of the boomer and older, and the gen X and younger, and it's getting nasty. I'll say I'm someone that has been pretty strongly anti letting the old folks exploit the next generations, and there's a lot of tension that happens there.

But it is getting pretty nasty, and I think part of it is because, and I felt this way also when I was in high school and a little bit younger, they failed to do what they were supposed to do as a generation to give us a decent planet, and asking me now to clean up their mess, and they don't even want to pay me to do it. And so, that's where the tone is very different with younger generations.

Seth Adler:
And maybe it's the failing of gen X, so I'm gen X proudly and fully, for not getting a president in there. But it's these Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and then now Donald Trump, those are all boomers. That's four in a row from one generation, that's a lot, and that's a lot of time. That's four [inaudible 00:15:29] of one generation being [inaudible 00:15:32].

Jason Ortiz:
Yep. And a generation that isn't exactly known for its generosity. You know, it's like-

Seth Adler:
No generation is known for their generosity, the way that they used to write about the boomers, is the way that they wrote about the gen X folks, is the way they'll write about millennials, is the way that we're reading, that's all the same conversation.

Jason Ortiz:
Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Just you know, the boomers have had a long list man between what we've done to [crosstalk 00:15:59] social services, yeah, education, things like student debt, that wasn't a thing 30 years ago. And so, it's definitely an-

Seth Adler:
And mass incarceration just started 30 years ago, right?

Jason Ortiz:
Right, exactly. And a lot of the folks that were now working for, not only were they supportive of a lot of these things, but they were the architects. And so, we're seeing now also on a political level, that a politicians history and votes, and policies have become completely irrelevant. And so whether or not you can support somebody, that is just a matter of personality politics, and the rest of it is window dressing.

And so, and no of course it's always been a thing but-

Seth Adler:
... To be the case. And you mentioned, you said this election and talked about it as though it was the past tense. I think what you were talking about is the 2020 presidential election, and the choices that we have. I think is-

Jason Ortiz:
Right, right. Exactly, exactly. It's one of those situations where they're like, "Do you want this or this?" And folks are, "Yeah, no. I refuse." And so that's I think, they're more likely to just say, "No, I'm not picking one." I don't care what flavor of poison.

Seth Adler:
... No working for us.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, that's very different way for sure. And so yeah, and it was just the context. You have to frame it within whether people want to do that activity or not. And if it's something they don't want to do it, it's really easy with that campaign. So, I mean I think it's good, it's going to force, hopefully, that there has to be a reckoning with that lack of substance for future iterations of politics. But I don't know, we've been dealing with this problem for very long time, and we won't know what tax and COVID, and all these different things do to shape the electorate moving forward.

But I hope it just makes folks have higher standards and less likely to accept weak candidates and weak policies because we see what happens when you do that.

Seth Adler:
Which brings us to policies, right? And so, let's get into ... That's what's around us, let's get into what you are doing, right? So I'm seeing 2020, in the middle of the global pandemic, what are the priorities? What are we focused on? That we think we can get done.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah. So our number one priority is redoing our state model bill. And so we've been the last month or so, putting together different working groups. And so normally we do that in person, it's a private only event where folks come together for a weekend, and we can really hammer out the details of what we think is the, sort of cutting edge of equity programming, or equity policies. So this time it's going to have to be digital, and unfortunately that won't help build camaraderie, and make sure folks know each other.

But we can still do a lot of policy work digitally, and we have a tremendous wealth of knowledge of folks that have done work all across the state, and we did the last model build in 2017. To say that the policies are dramatically different now is a huge understatement. We have now Minnesota, which is the most recent victory for MCBA. Shout out to Anthony Newby and Marcus Harcus, and the folks in Minnesota. We've visited, I think it was November of last year, to meet with majority leader Winkler, the various caucus chairs, and really go into the details of what we would do differently, how we can learn from places like Massachusetts, and Cali and Illinois. And so it was fantastic.

We met with lots of different people, and we can see now, they recently released their legalization bill. Representative Winkler did say he wanted it to be the best legalization bill in the country, and it is 202 pages of that attempt for sure. And there's some fantastic things in it, the granting to business owners that are getting started, and the granting to community organizations, is dramatically different than I've seen everywhere.

It does open it up to nonprofit organizations to be able to access these funds, and it's a much more open-ended process of what it could be used for. But there's like four or five different types of business support grants as well. So I think, Minnesota has pushed the conversation, Illinois pushed the conversation, and so now we're going to try to unite everybody, see what's the best, and what's working throughout the country.

Seth Adler:
Let me make sure that we got all of that. What is in that bill, that is new, different, better? Just outline as much detail as you can get in, I know that you're working across the country, and this is only one state, but it's a good example. So just give us those details again. I know you did-

Jason Ortiz:
Sure. And it just came out yesterday so I can't give it my final verdict on this one yet. But my initial impressions was, number one, it was heavily influenced my MCBA's model bill, you can see a lot of it. One thing that I'm personally very proud of, it creates the office of social equity, which is essentially the same thing as our office of justice reinvestment that we had in our model bill, that is a watchdog agency that can allow both citizens to say, "Hey, our community investment grants aren't working out how we thought."

But also equity applicants to say, the system isn't moving correctly, right? there's an ombudsman position there for the whole equity ecosystem to have somewhere that they can go to, to get things addressed. So that's fantastic, that's a huge one. But then again as I mentioned earlier, the community investment grants are much easier to access for a traditional nonprofit or community organization, and much more open ended as what you can use it for than previous attempts at a community investment grant.

Like in California for instance, you had to be a pretty big organization to be able to get awarded, or like literally a city, or a school system could do it, but not if you were a small nonprofit that say, wanted to create an afterschool program in your town. Whereas Minnesota does allow for a lot of those kinds of programs. The support for new businesses and social equity applicants is very clear in there, there's all kinds of different programs that they created.

One other piece that I think will be controversial, but I can say MCBA has put this to the table that I'm interested to hear, how equity movement feels about it, because I may not love it. But one thing that is in there that is different, veterans who have lost their honorable status due to a cannabis issue, can apply as an equity applicant. So if you're somebody that got hurt, you started smoking marijuana because you were injured, your doctor said, "No, you can't do that, you're going to lose your health care if you do that." You can now be part of the equity program.

Jason Ortiz:
So this is going to change the conversation around the war on drugs, and making sure that it's not exclusively the criminal justice system that impacts people, but also things like the VA immigration, and these other facets. And so, I think it's a broadening of the conversation, it is of course not race specific, and so it is true that folks that are not racial minorities, will be able to access this program easier than maybe in other States. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I don't think it's a bad thing as long as we design the program correctly, but I'm interested to see how the equity movement responds to this twist.

Seth Adler:
Well, so, from my point of view, and we can, you know this is on video for some if they want to choose that route, it's on just audio if you haven't chosen video. But if you have chosen video, you can see what I look like. That I guess should be said before I say, when I think of the phrase that we have been using, which is communities disproportionately affected by the war on drugs. From what you just said, veterans do count in that verbiage, right? And so, I'm also with you, a founding member of the MCBA, I take-

Jason Ortiz:
That's right.

Seth Adler:
... No matter what I look like.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah.

Seth Adler:
So I am also interested to see what people think, right?

Jason Ortiz:
Right. And it's something that, I as a person, want to expand how we talk about equity, while still remaining focused on direct impact. And I do think that the way it's phrased, and we took a lot of time to figure out how to specifically phrase that particular piece. But, it is only veterans that were directly impacted.

Seth Adler:
There we go.

Jason Ortiz:
But there are thousands-

Seth Adler:
Oh sure.

Jason Ortiz:
... Of those folks, many of them aren't of color as well. Like it's in the military, we have a lot of folks of color disproportionately. So, that's another piece of it of not thinking that it's just because it's a veteran, that means that it's only white veterans either, right? As we start to expand this ecosystem, we're pulling in more talent, we're pulling in more understanding of different folks. And I think this is another piece, it's a small part of Minnesota is that not many folks may see that it could have incredibly far reaching consequences.

And so I think for us as MCBA, that's how we can have big impacts. Work with local elected officials to put ideas out there that maybe are not what most of those things are politically palpable right now, but can be addressed and developed, and have conversation in an open critical dialogue to make sure things happen. And so I'm particularly proud of seeing in Minnesota push that envelope, and we're going to take what they did, and push it even farther.

Seth Adler:
To connect what we're talking about now with what we were talking about, I think that it does make sense for us to try to have this young people conversation, and ensure that that includes these rust belt, [inaudible 00:00:25:21], communities that are not necessarily people of color, but are absolutely dealing with the same things right now. So, even if all come to this moment in very different ways, and for very different reasons. But, I feel like if we want to, that intersectionality argument that Joe has talked about, and Steve [inaudible 00:25:49] talked about at Essential 2020, this event that we were talking about.

Jason Ortiz:
It a big buzz when I was in college too.

Seth Adler:
100%, but that's the only way that you're going to get it over the line.

Jason Ortiz:
For sure.

Seth Adler:
The only that Ben Joas did anything with the death penalty, whether you love it or hate it, whatever, is his group and the pro lifers came together.

Jason Ortiz:
So, before I was working in cannabis policy, I was working in ending the drug policy, I mean the death penalty movement. And it's true, we had incredibly left criminal justice advocates there with the pro lifestyle, pro-life folks and, you had to hold them together just long enough for the press conference to happen. Because we definitely had moments where we would have dinners afterwards, and you could tell a conversation was about to go there, and had to just be very nice and kind.

Everybody was very victim centered and trauma informed but, intense Catholic, in racial justice, I mean you're right, it was just very interesting. And so I think it is in my experience in that movement that helped me with the cannabis industry, where you have folks coming from every different possible background saying, "Hey MCBA, how can I help?" And we have to be able to have an answer for every single one of them. Whether you're a giant MSO, or somebody in Atlanta just trying to figure it out, we're doing our best to create that ecosystem.

And I think, yeah, so far so good, no ecosystem is always peaceful, and that's not necessarily a good thing either. So, I think having some conflict intention in there, is going to be healthy. And so for us, sometimes that means we're the one that puts the tension and conflict on the table, and see what people think.

Seth Adler:
Yeah. And this comes down to friends and family. So your in-laws, the saying goes, you only see the in-laws during Thanksgiving for a reason. Because it's really tough and [inaudible 00:27:43] like family members. So if you don't get along with them, okay, fine, we all have ... We're all our own people, so we should be able to bring people in. Some of my best friends, I can't stand.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, yeah, I've been there, for sure.

Seth Adler:
I think we just take the Venn diagram, see what overlays, agree on what we agree on, leave the other stuff out of the room, and let's get moving.

Jason Ortiz:
For sure, yeah. And I think as a Puerto Rican, as a lefty Puerto Rican that tries to get Democrats elected, that does not believe in God, I'm the one that always folks are like, "Well I'm going to go poke Jason and see if we can get a good argument going here." Because Puerto Ricans, they like to argue. And so it's a little bit like, they look forward to Thanksgiving, because now it's the one day where I can just let them have it. And then we all have good fun and drink coquito afterwards.

Which is true, and I've provided that form of entertainment year after year. But it is getting harder I will say, to just sort of absorb some of the perspectives than in the past. And especially Puerto Ricans, we are assimilated ish, Latinos, and so have a similar just complicated understanding of how we treat poor folks, and all this, anyway. So there's a lot of aspirational whiteness in Puerto Ricans I'll say. And with Trump, that has been one within the Puerto Ricans that I think is a stronger dividing line than religion wise. It's like, it's harder to bridge that gap when it comes to Trump at this point point, than it would have been sort of issue based stuff in the past.

Seth Adler:
Well and that's the key is what you just said right there. We have agreed that the politicians haven't gotten society where it needs to go. So let's just talk about the policies. [inaudible 00:29:38] guys, if they can help, fantastic. But let's leave the names out of it. I never bring up, I said the last president and this president, I don't-

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler:
It doesn't help-

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, yeah, it's true.

Seth Adler:
... The conversation, you know?

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah. And it doesn't build camaraderie, or bring people together, or further understanding at all. When you're talking about a particular issue, we can talk about how things help people or don't help people. But when you're talking about essentially celebrities, there's not substance there, it is just all opinion. Now you like them or you don't like them, right? But especially since for whatever reason we're going to ignore a policy, and elections at this point. And I'm a campaign manager for political candidates, and I can tell you policy plays very little of a role in anyone's decision.

And we often tell our candidates like, stop worrying about your platform. We'll put you support schools, and healthcare, and people, you are pro good things, and anti bad things, right? And then from there it's just a matter of hustle, right? It's like, how do we get in front of more people and bigger crowds, with a positive message that is essentially blank? Whereas issue-based organizers are coming 100% information and facts, right? Which I think they overdo it and don't get enough personality and emotion in it. But, it's been interesting to see the pros and cons of both approaches.

Seth Adler:
There you go, and you've just broken it down. The ultimate responsibility in representative government is on the people. We've got to do a better job, we've got to be better educated. We've got to not accept the fact that this is a popularity contest. And plus that's allowing not to go on.

Jason Ortiz:
Right, for sure. And I forget who said this, probably somebody important, but it was like, the price you pay for non-participation is to be ruled by lesser men.

Seth Adler:
It sounds like maybe Mark Twain but-

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, exactly. Somebody look the fact check it. But yeah, that struck me when I first heard it like, oh, yeah, we're clearly going through that right now. And that's again why I think with MCBA I was so focused on things like creating a model policy. Because I'm just really tired of talking about how everybody else has failed. They have, and those accountabilities happen, but it's just a waste of everybody's time. If we don't have something to supplant the issue that we're dealing with, we're just venting, and I think that's again, where the newer generations are like, "Get to the fucking point." Sorry, I swear on your podcast but, get to the point.

I believe, previous generations, specifically the boomers and you know, look for scapegoats more often than solutions. And I think that is a huge difference where, younger generation are like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." It's like, "Stop blaming people, what's the solution to the problem?" And so, I think I and MCBA, have always leaned on the like, let's just push out all the negative situations, yes, we're in a very difficult situation, let's figure out the solution. And, I think that's why we've been successful, I think that's why SSDP and MCBA have a strong relationship, and the youth are so ready to discuss cannabis equity, it isn't a bit of the past tense and how we failed. But, I'll take their enthusiasm for the solutions, and put it to good use.

Seth Adler:
There we go. All right. So we could go on, but I feel like this is a good breaking point, maybe we'll come back to it in a few weeks, few months, whatever it is. You know what the last question is, which is on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there. I will lessen the load on you because, I definitely have one for you as well. So don't feel the pressure, I've got a perfect one. For one you, I mean please do share at least something for us, right.

Jason Ortiz:
Man, I'm trying to think of who I've been listening to lately.

Seth Adler:
There you go, you can do something like that, yeah.

Jason Ortiz:
Man, that is a good question.

Seth Adler:
Got to listen to more music Jason that's where-

Jason Ortiz:
I know I haven't had to leave my house recently, and so I listen to a lot of music when I'm driving and, that's like normally when I do it. So now when it's YouTube it's just like, streams, yeah. Or a talk, right? But it's like I don't, it's not like-

Seth Adler:
Active listening.

Jason Ortiz:
... One artist in a row, and I'm like, oh, I'm listening for this artist right now. I will say, I encourage everyone to listen to Bella's Bartok, that is the last band that I saw live before all of the lockdown went down. It's gypsy punk, it is some really amazing music, and I think it's very uplifting in this moment. And so I think Wandering by Bella's Bartok, it's a song about travel, would be at this point in time where my aspirational song, where I look forward to being next time we talk.

Seth Adler:
So I have a relationship with, it's been a while since I've seen these guys but, another gypsy punk rock band, which is called Bad Buka. They're not-

Jason Ortiz:
I thought you were going to say Gogol Bordello.

Seth Adler:
Gogol Bordello, it's a similar type situation, absolutely, turns out we know a lot of this. Check out Bad Buka, if you can find them anywhere. There's a song that has the word angels in it, it's been awhile. But check that one out, that's a good ... The song that I was going to give you is from fellow Puerto Rican and, I mean, I don't want to call him a deity, but definitely he should be on a pedestal in South Virginia, Willie Colon.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler:
With The Hustler, right? We'll go with The Hustler.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler:
And that is all of this. And this is [inaudible 00:35:14], and thank you so much, it's always good talking to you, and I can't wait to check in with you down the line.

Jason Ortiz:
Yeah, absolutely man. It's going to be an interesting recap once we come back in a few months. But thanks again and check us out, minoritycannabis.org, happy to engage anyone looking to make the cannabis industry more equitable.

Seth Adler:
And there you have Jason Ortiz, very much appreciate his time, very much appreciate your time. Stay tuned.

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